How To Choose Happiness and Freedom Show

What in the World is Sociocracy with Community Resilience Builder Kathy Sipple!

December 03, 2020 Lauren G. Foster
How To Choose Happiness and Freedom Show
What in the World is Sociocracy with Community Resilience Builder Kathy Sipple!
Chapters
How To Choose Happiness and Freedom Show
What in the World is Sociocracy with Community Resilience Builder Kathy Sipple!
Dec 03, 2020
Lauren G. Foster

Kathy and I had an amazing time talking about what sociocracy is and how it can help any group to thrive and prosper in harmony and equality. so good! 

Here is all of the extra, insider information, resources and free stuff from today's episode. We hope you will reach out to Kathy and to the Be Happy First Team. All our love! Be Happy First! 

Kathy Sipple - Community Resilience Builder. 

Governance Alive Website
https://www.governancealive.com/

BOOKS
Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: Survive & Thrive on Disruption

John Buck

We the People: Consenting to a Deeper Democracy

John Buck

Free Live Webinar on Sociocracy

governancealive.com/freewebinar

Governance Alive Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/GovernanceAlive/

Links to information on Time Banking

https://timebanks.org/

http://hourworld.org/

You create your life. We are teaching you to create your life on purpose. Happiness and Freedom are your birthright!  


We have curated an AMAZING Happiness and Health Package with 9 amazing teachers and a TON of free gifts: guides, video series, e-courses, meditations and more! Go grab that here! https://www.behappyfirst.org/July


Here’s your direct link to some free guided meditations! Check out the General Meditation or the Connect with Your Body Meditation to get back in touch with your sacred physical form. Love, respect, communication… the basics for any great relationship. When you have a great relationship with Your Body, Your Body will give you everything you want!  https://www.behappyfirst.org/meditate


Watch or listen to past episodes of The How To Choose Happiness and Freedom Show on the Be Happy First Website. https://www.behappyfirst.org/show


Learn the 5 Secrets to Being Happy and Free here! https://www.behappyfirst.org/journalplaybook


I love you and I'm so glad you're here!  


Be sure to subscribe to this channel, "like and follow" the Be Happy First Facebook Page  


https://www.facebook.com/behappyfirst/


Join our PRIVATE Facebook Group Be Happy First Together for deeper conversations and support. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1252277614898225/


Welcome to the Be Happy First Tribe! Remember, Happiness is a Choice! You can always choose to Be Happy First!  

 

Show Notes Transcript

Kathy and I had an amazing time talking about what sociocracy is and how it can help any group to thrive and prosper in harmony and equality. so good! 

Here is all of the extra, insider information, resources and free stuff from today's episode. We hope you will reach out to Kathy and to the Be Happy First Team. All our love! Be Happy First! 

Kathy Sipple - Community Resilience Builder. 

Governance Alive Website
https://www.governancealive.com/

BOOKS
Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: Survive & Thrive on Disruption

John Buck

We the People: Consenting to a Deeper Democracy

John Buck

Free Live Webinar on Sociocracy

governancealive.com/freewebinar

Governance Alive Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/GovernanceAlive/

Links to information on Time Banking

https://timebanks.org/

http://hourworld.org/

You create your life. We are teaching you to create your life on purpose. Happiness and Freedom are your birthright!  


We have curated an AMAZING Happiness and Health Package with 9 amazing teachers and a TON of free gifts: guides, video series, e-courses, meditations and more! Go grab that here! https://www.behappyfirst.org/July


Here’s your direct link to some free guided meditations! Check out the General Meditation or the Connect with Your Body Meditation to get back in touch with your sacred physical form. Love, respect, communication… the basics for any great relationship. When you have a great relationship with Your Body, Your Body will give you everything you want!  https://www.behappyfirst.org/meditate


Watch or listen to past episodes of The How To Choose Happiness and Freedom Show on the Be Happy First Website. https://www.behappyfirst.org/show


Learn the 5 Secrets to Being Happy and Free here! https://www.behappyfirst.org/journalplaybook


I love you and I'm so glad you're here!  


Be sure to subscribe to this channel, "like and follow" the Be Happy First Facebook Page  


https://www.facebook.com/behappyfirst/


Join our PRIVATE Facebook Group Be Happy First Together for deeper conversations and support. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1252277614898225/


Welcome to the Be Happy First Tribe! Remember, Happiness is a Choice! You can always choose to Be Happy First!  

 

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Hello, and welcome to today's episode of the How to Choose happiness and freedom Show. I'm your host Lauren foster happiness teacher and founder of be happy first. And I am so happy today to have with me my sister author in the book The Art and truth of transformation for women, Kathy sippel. And we just discussed it 15 seconds ago and I've already forgotten your title community

Kathy Sipple:

builder,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

community resilience builder, I love that that's, you know, resilient communities, we can take anything we could we bend we go with the flow, we always come out stronger. Right?

Kathy Sipple:

Right.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Exactly. Thank you so much for being with me, oh, purse, I'm, it's

Kathy Sipple:

my pleasure. I'm happy to be here.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Right. So when I send out an email to all of my people every morning, I know what the show's gonna be about. I'm like, I just, you know, I love her. She does all kinds of different things. So we just picked this one thing to talk about.

Kathy Sipple:

I'd be happy to come back and we can explore another thread, but I will try to stay as focused as possible. I

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

know we're gonna go wherever we want to go.

Kathy Sipple:

We could probably talk for at least an hour about sociocracy. It's a big topic. It's a cool topic. So

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

yeah, so get us started. And remember that I know where I'm coming from a place of almost complete ignorance as to what exactly so sociocracy is,

Kathy Sipple:

yeah, well, probably you and 99 point something percent of the world's population would be in the same boat. Seem to embrace these terms, you know, that people are like, what is that? Exactly? You know, so that must be my role in life is just to bring these ideas forth, and kind of be their cheerleader. But this is one that I have just fallen in love with ever since I got the first gentle nudges about it. And by the way, I have this rule from the universe. If the universe nudges me three times about a topic, and I get that stirring, I'm like, I must do it. We must pursue it. And the first Inklings that I got about sociocracy, were a few years ago from an organization I really respect called the mutual aid network in Madison, Wisconsin. And they dabble in, you know, like timebanking, which is another thing that I do. I won't get too into that today. But you know, that's another thing that most people look at me like, what what is that? You know, a lot of people will that he can, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we could go, you know, we could talk about that some other time. But, you know, they, they nudged. And then a good friend of mine, who's actually a member of the time bank, who's into all kinds of real interesting ideas, she asked me to go to a sociocracy training with her several years ago. Timing wasn't right. And then, you know, for the last, I just want to kind of say, what I'm coming into, in where I've been, and then I really will get around to answering What is sociocracy? I promise, this is perfect.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

This is perfect.

Kathy Sipple:

Okay, good. Well, I have been a social media trainer and strategist since late 2008. And I don't know that I really, you know, had a plan to become that either. It was just kind of another social technology that bubbled up. And I had really practical and personal reasons to want to learn that and bring that forth. If you'll remember, in late 2008, we were just getting into, you know, the big recession. And you know, there was a lot of stuff kind of hitting the fan. In my family, we had some health emergencies, and I just saw that social media could help build an online community, it can help us get information across quickly. And so I'd say the thing that bridges where I've been, and where I'm going is that they're both what I'm going to call social technologies. So they're, like social media. It wasn't like I was so interested in the technology, I was interested in the potential to knit together communities. And of course, you know, Facebook, hello, Facebook, we were on your live program right now recording. So we appreciate that. And I think we're using it in such a positive way. And many do, you know, but then there are the people who use it. Not not for the ways that I really, that tugged at my heartstrings that made me want to use it, right. But in any case, I remember five years ago, telling my husband that in five years, I don't think I want to be doing this anymore anymore. And he said, Well, what do you want to do? I didn't know. So I was I was listening, though, for those gentle nudges and sociocracy kind of hit me for the last and final. It was more than a nudge. It was like really drawing me in and a really deep invitation to explore it and I couldn't resist and plus my five years were up and the company that I had been previously employed with that provided me the most of my income actually a year ago today was the last day that I ever did training with them. So that's kind of a good book marker, just a good you know, what do you want to call it? Just an interesting Note that this would be the day that we chose this exactly one year from that day to case.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

segue, but before I do, I really do want to know what sociocracy is. But he said, 70 good things that I want our listeners to really pay attention to one that you listen to your intuition, me Let the universe talk to you and let the universe guide you. And, you know, Kathy, simple is wonderful and amazing. But we all have access to this, you know, infinite intelligence that knows, what is the next best step for us? And if we will just learn to pay attention, and listen. Yeah, then we're gonna, we're gonna go on wonderful journeys and learn wonderful things and have a great impact on the world. Every single one of us, you know, we're all here for a reason. And so, he said yet do this for yourself, too. Yeah. All right. So here's, yeah,

Kathy Sipple:

I really love to be kind of a wayshower. But not that I'm so special that I'm doing it I believe, just as you said that all of us absolutely have this ability, this potential and it's it's just so tragic to me. If people feel stuck, and they don't listen to those inner you know, stirrings and follow, you know, follow that. Sometimes it is a little hard, like when you don't exactly know what is the sociocracy facilitator or consultant. yet know that, like, I've been telling my mentor all, I'll drop his name real quick. JOHN buck is who I'm really lucky enough to study with right now. And we just completed our first official training in mid November. And he's actually the person who learned Dutch in order to bring sociocracy from the Netherlands to the English speaking world. And interestingly, I think he was doing that around 2008, kind of when I was, you know, diving into social technologies from the social media kind. He had a nudge, he had a good job, I want to say was an engineering with Boeing or something like that, but he's like, you know, I like my boss. He's a good boss. But, you know, what I'd really like is to work in a place where I get to vote for my boss. You know, why is that not something that we get to do we only get, you know, employee reviews. But why does the power not also go up and around and everywhere. It just really bothered him. And then he was at a conference in the Netherlands, and, you know, probably just talking with people during a break or something. He said, he said that very thing. In a conference, attendee said, Oh, Gerard, and Edinburg, I hope I'm saying his name correctly, I'm probably butchering it. He's like, he's got this all figured out. And he happened to live in the Netherlands. So he said, You've got to go see him? He did. And he saw that this was what he was looking for. And so he embraced it. And it turns out, that while it was being developed in the Netherlands, it was simultaneously independently, you know, being developed in India. And have you ever heard of that thing about the hundredth monkey? Like how monkeys separated from, you know, across the sea, they figured out one? Yeah, it's like that hive mind, even when they're not, you know, connected geographically. Like, they learn to use the tool, they learned to crack open the coconut, like, in the exact same second, or minute or day, or whatever it is. And it's like, there's no logical reason why that would happen. But, you know, when the idea is ripe, the mind, you know, sends out these signals and just, you know, gets to the people that need it.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Yeah. And that connection to the Infinite Intelligence now, was it called sociocracy. At that time?

Kathy Sipple:

It was yes.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

And it does groups that were developing it called

Kathy Sipple:

No, you know, I'm not actually sure what they were calling it in India. I think sometimes in India they're they're just called neighborhood Parliament's. They've been I know not. I'm not expert in either the Netherlands or India but some of the things that have excited me that I've heard about it. In India, they actually have children's Parliament's and I think they are showing probably the most promise of how to empower children and in their schools, when they Institute these children's Parliament's they don't sit by age in their classes, they sit by neighborhood. And so sociocracy Let me say what it's not it's not socialism, number one, and when you are asked accuracy at the end, it kind of sounds like democracy. It's not really democracy. It's it's rule by society. So demos is, you know, my Greek and Latin are not so good. But anyway, it's it's rule within a community of people that know each other that come together in focus with a common aim. So circles are very important in sociocracy, it's, it's not really something that you can effectively do. If you had a circle with, you know, 100 people, that would be probably too many, in your circle in sociocracy, also is a system of circles. I'm kind of jumping all over here, but I'll just do a little bit of a download, you can ask me questions on what doesn't make sense. And then we can kind of go from there. There's also this concept of double linking. So you know, when you look at a traditional corporate structure, in most companies, right, it's that pyramid shape, right? And you've got the power centralized at the top. And the person way down here at the bottom, you know, the janitor, the the data entry person, whatever it might be, you know, never the two shall meet probably with the top echelons and the lowest levels, right. But in sociocracy, you have representation from every level, at a general circle. So, likewise, you might have, you know, a circle, let's say, of janitors, if you were a huge company, and you happen to employ like a lot of janitors. But you would also have representation from that top circle in the janitor circle, so that they would also know what was going on, you'd have a janitor in the top circle, you know, so you've got like, kind of everybody represented, and the other. Okay, so I said the common name, that's very important circles, double linking. And then consent, voting is another really important aspect of sociocracy. So consent, fortunately, or unfortunately, sounds a lot like consensus and consensus kind of means everybody's got to agree. Yeah, and it's not, that's not equivalent. What's consent means is that I don't have any big objection to what the proposal is on the table. So that's another sociocracy thing during every circle meeting, you're always building an agenda around proposal for more than one proposal. So anybody in the circle can bring a proposal to the circle to, to talk about in the way that you talk about and shape the proposal and sociocracy is, first it's presented by whoever, whoever had the initial idea, you go through a comment round, in every single person is invited to give comment, not only invited but really encouraged you, you have to say pass. If you don't have anything, if you say pass, and your body language is an eye roll, or you know your face look scared or something like that, that's actually seen as an objection and you will not be allowed to just simply pass you'll you'll kind of the the circle will probe you to ask you, if they're doing a good job, what is really going on with you, it looks like you've got a comment, it looks like you're sitting with something. So there's there's really this whole element of embodied wisdom and decision making. And the members of the circle being accountable to one another to notice their quality of presence to notice if they seem fully engaged and not distracted and to notice the signals of the body that people are are giving off. So anyway, there's a comment round, and question round. So if people don't clearly understand the proposal, this is their opportunity to, you know, ask a clarifying question. It's not yet time for objections, right. So you're just clarifying the proposal. And then the other cool thing about sociocracy is you've got different roles within the circle. So each circle will have a primary facilitator. And there will also be a note taker that is responsible for taking down, you know, kind of creating the shared memory of the group so carefully listening, listening, and synthesizing what's going on what's being said, and constantly shaping the proposal to see if they've got what each speaker has said, to modify the proposal as we go. Okay. And then I feel like there's another Oh, and then there's a representative also. So with all these different circles, if you get to a big and complex organization, there can be quite a lot of circles. And I already told you about the double linking. So the representative aspect is the one who notices what's going on with this circle, and is willing to sit in another circle, and be that communicator across circles. So those three roles are all elected by the circle members. And that's just a beautiful process in and of itself. Anyway, back to the proposal. So Somebody has brought a proposal, we've had a round of questions. The note taker is synthesizing, you know, the questions and the ideas as they go. And then finally, when everybody agrees that everyone's feedback has been synthesized into the proposal, the facilitator will ask, are we ready for an objection round. And with that people are invited to if another round of commenting is needed, that could also happen. So it's not a strict linear process, you know, sometimes very complex things might take more than one round of commenting to synthesize it and get it right. But finally, when you're ready for the objection, round, what the objection round means is not that I hundred percent agree with every single aspect of this? Yeah, it's, it's something I can live with. I don't have any huge objections. It's good enough for now. And it's safe enough to try. So we can say that we can move forward without it being perfect. As long as it doesn't hurt anybody. And it's something that we can re explore the next time the circle comes back together, and is open to constant iterations of constant improvement and feedback. So that I just want

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Yeah, you did. Pause there. Yeah, that's awesome. So in that situation, does everyone need to agree? Yes, this is good enough. So if somebody if one person says, No, I can't, I can't get behind, this doesn't get tossed out, then what happens?

Kathy Sipple:

What doesn't get tossed out. But if you have something in your body that just says I cannot live with this, this is not good enough for now, this is not safe enough to try, then it really is your responsibility to speak up. It's not at all encouraged that you just sweep that under the rug. It's it's amazing how welcome objections are in this process. You know, when you're trying to get to consensus, you know, you think of like the jury, the hung jury that's like, Oh, my gosh, we've been in here for weeks, we want to go home. That's not really the vibe that you get with objections, like usually, when you're gathered around a shared aim. And you, you know, again, that's the socios. It's the social the society. So it's people that you come to trust, basically, because you're interacting with them in this really kind of vulnerable and transparent way. You really trust that if they have an objection, the circle needs to listen. And there's wisdom there. That's not being addressed, or, you know, so basically, one of my other teachers, Monica. She was not my teacher in this training, but she's been very instrumental. She's john Buck's partner at governance alive. She was a founding partner, she compares it to broccoli. She's like, I really enjoy raw broccoli, it's, you know, pretty good. My favorite way to eat broccoli is kind of crisp, tender, steamed. And that's, you know, very fine. I like that. If it's like, if it gets too mushy broccoli, I'm not going to eat it. So like her preference, you know, you can have preferences, well, I would prefer that the proposal be written this way. But she can either eat the raw broccoli or the steamed broccoli, and even if it gets, like, slightly beyond what she likes, she's, you know, she's not gonna not consent to eating it. But if it gets too much, she's like, I'm sorry, that's going to be composted, or, you know, somebody else could have it. I don't part of that. So we have, you know, so we're looking at, can I consent to that? Is it within my range of acceptable that that's the, you know, the litmus test for Can we move forward as a group together with this decision?

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Okay. And everyone said, I can see the beauty in this because, you know, that and the piece, if everyone had a part in making a decision, then there's no objections later on, and there's no resentment later on, because the like, we're all in this together for real.

Kathy Sipple:

Exactly. That's true. It's so true. And until you experience it, it's, I'm glad that you're you're kind of almost feeling it just by just most people can't get it because it sounds too theoretical. But if you can imagine yourself in that circle and how that feels when you're really heard, and where your objections are really embraced and people trust you. It is a beautiful feeling. And just what I also love is that they say if you don't feel like celebrating at the end of you know, a decision round, then there's probably somebody still sitting with an objection. You know, if everybody's not like hands in the air, you know who You know, happy emojis. Or if you're in person, like hugging or popping the champagne, you're probably not to a true concert, you know, consent decision. And you're absolutely right, it's like by taking that time to make sure every voice is heard, capture all the crowds wisdom, you end up with, like stronger organizations that really, you know, capture the gifts that all of their various members have that otherwise would just be overlooked. And, you know, more loyal, happier, you know, group members. And by the way, this can, when I'm talking about a group, it could be

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

a family, it could be a community, it could be a Girl Scout troop, it could be,

Kathy Sipple:

it could be a manufacturing company, it could be a school, it could be, yeah, it could be a government, but, you know, governance alive is the name of the company that I work with, you know, with john buck and Monica Magnitsky. But it's not really all about government, its governance. And another synonym for sociocracy, sometimes used is called dynamic governance. So, you know, for me, that's really nice. That's called governance alive. When I, when I heard the name, first, I have to tell you, I was baffled, like, What on earth, I don't even understand what that means, you know, it just was so alien to me. But now that I'm getting it, it's like, it's not the stagnant form of governance, where, you know, the rule comes down from above, and I have never had any affinity or love for the word governance before. And now that I'm learning sociocracy, I just, you know, I can't wait to, like, take it everywhere and play with it, you know, and in every ecosystem where I play, because once you've experienced that, it's really, really hard to go into a meeting where Robert's Rules of Order, you know, rule the day that just feels not alive, right. You know, I, I don't know how I'd go in to a traditional corporation with a typical power structure in work like that, that, you know, like, once your voices heard, and you're used to the benefits of reaping the wisdom that comes with everybody's voice, like, Why on earth? Would you want to go back? You know,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

and we, as I mentioned, before the show, we typically avoid the discussion of politics, but how beautiful would it be, if a country were able to, and it wouldn't be impossible, you know, so a community is a circle. And then there are representatives from that circle that represents, you know, the town and then, and so on, and so forth. I mean, it could totally be done. And everyone truly does have a voice.

Unknown:

Yes.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Yeah. And then the divisiveness would be gone.

Kathy Sipple:

Yes. And I would just love to invite people to give it a try. I don't know when the next free. It shouldn't be called a webinar. It's really like a taste of sociocracy immersive experience, but people kind of get webinar when you say it. It's not a talking head where they're just talking at you. But if you go to governance alive.com, you can, you know, see if there's a free webinar coming up, the best way to experience this is just to come and play and try it out. It's a two hour experience, it costs nothing, it's totally free. And they give you a little background about sociocracy for the first 20 minutes, if you've heard me, you're gonna be like, Yeah, I know that I know that. It's always good to hear it again from the expert. And then the majority of the time is spent with somebody just, you know, crafting a sample proposal. And these people who have never met one another who just come together on a webinar, they kind of play the roles of, you know, what are my feelings about this? What are my questions about it, and people are moved even in that, you know, semi fictitious experience, that's not really such a common name. They're amazed at like, how quickly you know, people come together, figure out smart questions, figure out great solutions that none of them would have figured it out on their own, you know, so it's this multi brained alive organism that we can really be when we just did we need some form of facilitation, a shared aim and some ground rules and it's beautiful, beautiful,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

said that the total is more than the sum of its parts. It became something bigger. This is Romeo he always Romeo gamma, he comes to almost every video. Um, I

Kathy Sipple:

know aside banished her to the bedroom office.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Ah banished, that's a bad word.

Kathy Sipple:

Computer, she's not little she's a big dog. So

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

it's Eat up. It's good and I appreciate you Honoring the video by not having it interrupted, but I wouldn't care just for people who don't know. Yeah. Okay, so I'm breaking this down in my mind to the smallest group. So like a family, how how empowered with children be said grew up having a voice in their family dynamic?

Kathy Sipple:

Yes. And you know, in my family, we had a family of five, and my parents were pretty awesome. I mean, they are awesome, I'm blessed, both of them are still alive and with us. But they would say family vote time. And when we would decide on where to go for vacation, or where to go for dinner, they would actually allow me and my two younger sisters to vote in a family of five, you know, it's six years old, you could be the deciding vote of where we went for vacation. And we would always say majority rules. Okay, so that's not consent. So that still means that you can end up with two unhappy people. And, you know, maybe even that third person wouldn't be that happy that made the deciding vote, because a lot on them that they swayed at one way or another.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Yeah. So that that's democracy, right majority rules.

Kathy Sipple:

And I believe me, democracy is it's a wonderful thing. I'm not here to overthrow anything. I do want to say, I'll put in a plug for John's book, I think it's really great. It's called We the People consenting to a deeper democracy, and it's about sociocracy. And just how, you know, for a lot of reasons, obviously, democracy. You know, if you said, Oh, on Election Day, we're going to go to the polls and do it sociocracy style? Well, that I don't know of any way that that would work. That seems like a hot mess. Putting in committees and you know, things like that. Yeah, absolutely. Breaking it down to a smaller example, you know, maybe not the family, but in the in government's, they could probably do it on, you know, these house Commission's that are put together to, to, you know, look into a certain subject. I mean, that seems like that could easily be done. Right. Right. Yeah.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

And just just for the record, wherever you're watching or listening to this, if you just look below, we'll include all the links that all the things that Cathy's talking about. And I kind of glanced at one of the links that you sent me, and I have a feeling that one of this free Sessions is either tomorrow or next Friday. So that's December the fourth or December the 11th. Yeah, something like that.

Kathy Sipple:

I'm not sure what they decided with holidays and everything like that. But if there isn't one currently there when you look Chuck back in January, and they do happen at least at least once or twice a month. So I'm 99%

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

sure that it's either this week or next week, so that way, go and go check that out, we'll share the book, we'll share the links to get to Kathy will share everything. So you could just click on it and go there. Okay, so, um, we talked about the family units, I think I get it I I think I understand. So, um, let me just draw a picture, and then you can correct me as preferred. No. All right. So we there's a company that employs 100 people. And they're 10 different departments. So there's 10 people in the marketing department, and there's 10 people in the janitorial services, and there's 10 people in all these different ones. So they all have their own circle, where they are making decisions amongst themselves and each group has facilitator and a note taker who is compiling all of the information and refining the proposal as comments and things are made, right. And then there's a representative in each of those 10 circles, right?

Kathy Sipple:

You're a very good student. Yes, yes. Yes.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

I love learning. Um, okay, so there the 10 different ones Now, where does the boss where where does the where does the buck stop?

Kathy Sipple:

Okay, well, that's the interesting thing is it's you know, since it's alive and it's dynamic, it the buck really never does. So it's it's really pretty cool that you know, the boss would certainly have a voice as well, because it's not like their voice is not important. They're not equal to everybody but they have an equivalence in a circle. Nobody's vote counts more than anybody else's. So

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

So who what circle is that is that say the CEO? What circle pbn?

Kathy Sipple:

There's generally a I'm still learning quite frankly, I haven't gotten to this point of my study. So I'm saying this from observation than being an expert. I'll talk more about that in a second. But at least in governance alive, I'm lucky enough to participate in several circles, I get to participate in something called the general circle, which, you know, I would say that's probably one place the CEO would likely pop up is just kind of general, taking a look at the big picture. Now, they're not a huge organization. So we don't have endless circles, we don't even have 10. But the general circle, it's got basically representation from all sectors, you know, and then there's another circle that I'm in called the top circle. And that's got a little different focus, where they were changing more from a consulting organization to a training organization, because they really kind of felt this impetus to, to say, you know, what, when we're consultants, we can be tied up with one company, for a year. And then how much are we really transforming the world, you know, we transform that company. But we need to deputize people to know what we know, and to be experts at this, so they can help us really transform society. So we, the top circle really was about how do we make that pivot to be consulting and move to training. So I've been lucky enough to play a role on that. And then I'm in another circle called the growth circle. That's about how do we, you know, grow this little seedling of a training institute and do it sustainably, so you don't just like well let go of all of your income from consulting and say, we're just going to do training, because it takes a while to get the students and to find, you know, find your people. So it would be foolish, you know, to do that. So anyway, I get to play in three different circles. And I think I'm only a representative from one where I represent the growth circle at the general circle. So whenever the group calls it, but I would say you probably if you were starting it, my guess is you would start with a general circle for your very first one. And you would have your CEO there. Okay. Maybe in a big company, you'd have like a C suite circle or something like that. And representation. The rule basically is, again, I if there's any expert out there that can comment if john buck listens to this later, just Ellen, I need to give her a big shout out. She's she actually found me I want to give a shout out to social media, because I updated my LinkedIn to say, community resilience builder, or this crazy title that I made for myself, not sure of how I was really going to live into that, hey, wouldn't she know it, she googled or she looked up on LinkedIn search, I think something like regenerative economy, resilience, you know, good at social media. And she said, You were the top person who showed up. So she reached out to me, and I got this great opportunity, because I had the interest in this current, you know, career that I'm driving toward and the background that I came from. So I just love that. So I am still learning. And just knows this a bit better than I do. She's absolutely fabulous. She's she gets the real nitty gritty. And I kind of like ride the wave and then go, Wait, what just happened, and you just need to, like, actually write this down or, you know, observe and pay attention. But I've been working with them since about July. I met them a few months prior that that have been really immersed in it since July. And it's it's been a game changer. Really a game changer.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

It's so cool. So again, I want to encourage everybody to learn more about this and look into it. And I'm reminded of of some of my favorite books are the earth children's series, the the planescape. Bear and the all of those.

Kathy Sipple:

Yeah, I don't know. I didn't realize that was a series though. Okay. Oh,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

yeah. So that there, there are like five of them. And she does such an amazing job of just kind of exploring the evolution of, of community and status. And you know, how the people who are able to wear a lot of beads on their clothing is an indication of wealth, because they've done a good job of providing for themselves. And so they have time to sit and spend on on crafts and things like this. Well, in one of these particular caves, they call them this community. They were they were just kind of special because they allowed every single person in the camp to have a vote no matter how high or low their status was. And there was a man in this in their cave that came with very, very low status and was just, you know, kind of a loud mouth discontent. And, but he was still given a voice. And through that whole process, he changed. He felt that respect of, of having a voice and being heard, and And became one of the best valued members of that cave. Because, you know, they respected him first. Yeah, so I respect you, and then you suddenly want to earn my respect. And it's Yeah. So

Kathy Sipple:

I'm gonna have to re listen to that. And or I say, listen, because I do so much on Audible these days. But read, listen, whatever. But I'm definitely going to take a deep dive into that. And I want to say, I'm really glad you mentioned that too. Because, you know, somebody might hear this and just think, you know, what, this is not new. This is like indigenous wisdom that's been around. This is like what people did before things got complicated. We had other systems, which is very likely true. You know, I just think it's both fortunate and unfortunate that it's got this other name. But it's now recognizable. It's, you know, Kota fiable. But I just, you know, I want to give deep respect to all the indigenous wisdom that brought forth you know, circles and this kind of, like, more peaceful existence. Yeah. Previously, you know, to me, it just feels like it's a fusion between interestingly, the, some of the most receptive companies for this have been the very technical companies like companies that build apps or build software or like, the to companies that know about agile, you know, that like, hey, it's gonna break, let's hurry up and fail. You know, like Google says, fail often or something like that, you learn and you move on. And then very interestingly, like, we've been working with a lot of blockchain organizations like in the cryptocurrency space, okay? I knew nothing about this. Nada, nada. Like, just yesterday, I bought my first cryptocurrency, to try to understand it better. But the reason I think it's such a marriage of those two is that they kind of hang their hat on being a decentralized organization, like the blockchain, if you look into it, I definitely am not expert in this. But it's all decentralized banking, where they really hope to kind of be this alternative to banks and finances. And we're no one person, you know, holds all the power. It's not like, you know, a bank CEO holds all the power, it's the chain that gives the power. And so when they're not run on a governance system that models what they're supposed to be about. There's this, you know, cognitive dissonance there. And so when we have come to them and said, We have your your governance answer, it's just been really cool to hear CEOs of some of the top 10 blockchain companies like referring to this, like the Savior, john buck that's coming. He's going to show us how to do governance and how to, you know, have consent voting. And so I'm just so excited for 2021 to see where to sleep. You know, what role I get to play in it, whatever role I get to play that I think will be super exciting.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Yeah. It's so optimistic feeling. It's so, so hopeful feeling. Yeah. And I just, I feel like our world just got too big, too fast. And we just kind of forgot how to how to relate to one another. And yeah, okay, so you were also the one who mentioned the movie social dilemma to me. But and I don't know why. But it just kind of feels like a social dilemma, or should I look, the documentary? Hmm,

Kathy Sipple:

I don't remember that. Well, you told me

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

was in the you in the group that was talking about, um, social dilemma was the Netflix documentary that's talking about that it had all the the creators from YouTube and Google.

Kathy Sipple:

I did watch that somewhat recently. But yeah, I probably watch, like so many other things. Since then. I don't remember the details. Enough to jog my memory. Sorry.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Yeah, no, no, it will. It's just about how they knew what they were doing when they created all of these ways of molding our minds and getting us to behave in certain ways. But then I went, Oh, crap. What do we do? This is and how you know, people are millennials, especially and younger, are really being led on a path of, you know, with addiction and narcissism and lack of self image and all of these things that are just really kind of wrecking lives by abusing social media. So

Kathy Sipple:

yeah, it's it's just so sad to me in a way because again, it's a social technology. And I think there doesn't have to be anything inherently wrong with it. But yeah, it's like I just something in my heart was kind of just sinking these last few years. I'm like, I know I need to move from this to my next thing. And at the same time, I mean, I've told You when we when we have worked together, you know a little bit, I still get really jazzed up to help people who are trying to do the right thing and to build community and to bring

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Yeah, and and social media will be very important for spreading the message of sociocracy. The baby out with the bathwater you No,

Kathy Sipple:

no, we're doing it right now. It's all very meta, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know, I kind of would tell people when I first started, you know, teaching this stuff in 2008, you know, they'd say, Oh, just like some people even said, it's the work of the devil, or it's evil and like, is a phone evil. You could call somebody and tell them, you know, I hate you, or make a prank call. Or you could call, you know, your mom and tell her that you love her? You know, it's a phone, it's a tool. But there there are a lot of Yes, like data gathering and things beyond that. You know, it's not like you're working in a vacuum, obviously. So, anyway, I I'm not, you know, it's like, when you're on the rings, you know, what do they call that I've never done this in real life, but in the circus when they're like grabbing one, and then they go to another go of it completely, I'm definitely working with a net, to

Unknown:

still have that

Kathy Sipple:

there. But, you know, really, by 2002, it is my hope to have completed all seven modules of training and gone through all the practice, so that I can be a consultant that would either be brought into a company to help them, you know, move from whatever their governance structure is into associate chronically led company, or to train other people that might even be additional training beyond the seven modules. But you know, that's what I really want to do is, you know, help bring this legacy forth. Because if it's just to trainers in the world who can do this for money, you know, it's not. So I am very excited, I'm going to put this intention out there. That modules three, four, and five are being offered in Greece next summer in June. And I would not get on a plane today. No way. I'm not doing it with COVID. But is really my hope that, you know, whatever vaccine or air travel, it'll all be safe to do. Because if I do that, then I'll only have six and seven to finish up. And I plan to do that by March of 2022. So I can see it. It's feeling like a tractor beam, I'm just I'm in the poll, and I have this momentum, I have a passion for it. And I hope that I'll find other people who want to join me either in my, in my own cohort, or you know, who really feel motivated that like I, you know, I told john buck, this was not something in my eighth grade career day, that was an option. You know, like, I was interested, you know, who knows what, they're going to be in eighth grade. But this was not an option, but neither was social media trainer rate. So this is kind of a new and emerging consultancy that I feel like is really going to be needed. But right now, I'm getting the same looks like I was about Twitter in 2008, that people just thought it was stupid. They thought it was a fad. They didn't think that they needed to learn about it. Of course, it ended up being you know, huge. In this I feel like has that absolute same power and potential. And so we need the people who want to do the good things with it. And I honestly don't know how you can do a bad thing with it. That's kind of nice when I think about it, you know, and

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

again, you can't say that about very many things that

Kathy Sipple:

Yeah, that's true. That's right. I

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

of course, want to jump on board with you. But every single week, I want to jump on board with all of my guests like, Oh, yeah, I want to do that with you.

Kathy Sipple:

I'm kind of the same, but the more you know, my jam, it's my

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

grace in the summer has a nice ring to it.

Kathy Sipple:

In an eco village, yeah. With organic food. Yeah,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

we're definitely going to talk more about

Kathy Sipple:

there's room for a few more, not not too many. It's going to be a very small training and I just feel so privileged that my spot is secured. And, again, just I hope it's safe enough to do because this just feels like something that needs to happen. I need to go to Greece. I need something exciting and fun to look for. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I want my home I think we've been doing this extended staycation about as well as anybody you know can expect to but definitely need to look for some bigger adventure. The you know, the light at the end of the tunnel,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

right? I'm right there with you. And you know, my normal lifestyle is essentially distance Anyway, I'm out in the middle of nowhere with just these critters and so I'm in my outings are very important. They're my only contact with the world I could turn into a complete hermit

Kathy Sipple:

No, I'm glad you mentioned that actually. Because I, when I started working with governance alive with john and Monica, their mentor is in Austria. And she started, like seeding her sociocracy, which she called centers in real time in person trainings. And, you know, she had done that. So that was her model. And she couldn't really understand well, why are you not doing these in person, and we were just in a whole different stage of like lockdown than Austria was at that time, I don't know, currently how Austria is doing. But we had to do this training online, or else just wait until COVID was passed. So if they would have only done it for in person, people, they would have only offered it to people in Washington, DC, which is where they are, I'm near Chicago. So in a weird way, this is the gift that COVID has given me this to heard of this community that includes you know, DC and Puerto Rico and Austria. In my cohort, there were people from Sweden, and, you know, Colorado and Oregon. And, like, you know, so if we're getting really good at doing this, now, it's just gonna make when we can be in person all that more special. Yeah. But if this hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been, you know, we would have considered as a student. So it's

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

so many of that, that you know, that when we shake everything up, and you can't do things the way you did before, suddenly, you get to use your imagination and think of new ways to do things. So it's a giant get a giant reset for the world. And

Kathy Sipple:

the point,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

yeah, it's all gonna work out just fine. All right, well, is there anything else you want to add about sociocracy anything that we need to, that we didn't cover so that that To sum up, go and get involved in one of these free trainings and learn more about it. And maybe consider hooking up with Kathy and learning ways that you can become a trainer or follow through with that more and other opportunities and, or, you know, just introduces theocracy to your family or to your book club, you

Kathy Sipple:

want I'll tell you even, it definitely helps to practice it helps to have a community of practice, we actually are having our first study session next week from our first cohort training. So you know, it's one thing to learn the book knowledge, but if you don't practice facilitating offer feedback, you know, that's really that's an important thing. So I do want to say like, there are other people doing this sociocracy training, and I am from a marketing background. So when I first started talking with them in July, I was like, Okay, so what's your niche, and you know, who heard let's do a SWOT analysis, and they just, they weren't marketers at all. They're like, we just want to transform society, we have our edge defined. So I do want to say sociocracy, for all is a nonprofit, they are out there. And they have an online course. And it's lower cost. So if you look at our pricing, you're like, Oh, you know, I want to learn it can't do it, you're still welcome to come to the free webinar. But maybe, you know, the online training would be important or helpful for you. So we are actually trying to create a sociocracy ecosystem so that we can work with organizations like sociocracy, for all, like, I think it's called governance from below, that's kind of more in India, you know, just kind of saying, what do you do really well, if you're an eco village, and there was actually a sister author who is starting an eco village out near Seattle, on British Columbia, and she loved everything about it, but she's like, Oh, we can't afford that training, you know, I'm going to now send her to sociocracy. For all now that I understand that that price point might be, you know, more palatable. But I would say if you've got like, a blockchain organization, or you've got I was just talking to somebody yesterday that works with like, the Unitarian churches all over the country. And I was like, you know, what, for that Weidman network, where you really need to do it to scale or, you know, if you're coming from a corporate background, kind of the enterprise solution, that's where I feel like governance alive is is really good, because john and Monica sort of are used to that really complex, you know, I mean, gosh, I've been working with john on a proposal over the past week that we've probably put 10 or 12 or more hours each into working on this proposal, because it's so complex. Those are the kinds of things that he can do is just take it from how the heck would I do that? to boil it down to like, this makes sense. Here's where you would start you know. So anyway, there are a lot of different places you can learn it. And you can you can get the book too you can get the book I already mentioned, called We the People consenting to deeper democracy and we'll throw the link in and there's another one too if you are in the technology space, but even if You're not it's it's pretty cool. It's called bossa nova in bossa nova stands for let's see if I get this right. Beyond budgeting open space sociocracy. And I'm forgetting one agile, okay? So it's an acronym Nova just being new, but it is it it was intentionally named after the dance because it's in the music because it's kind of like, it's alive. It's like dynamic. And so john is really good at using other social technologies that might be needed beyond sociocracy. I love sociocracy. And alone, it is powerful, but in conjunction with some of these other, you know, social technologies, it can even be more powerful. So, anyway, that's, that's all I want to say is, we're not the only place to learn it. There are definitely some other places to go. But if you have a complex issue, I'd say, talk to john.

Unknown:

Okay.

Kathy Sipple:

Probably more than me, because I know I'm not gonna know the complexities yet. I'm still learning. But yeah, well,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

I, you are clearly in love with everything about it. I love your passion and your enthusiasm, and it's gonna be awesome. I can't, I can't wait to see what you do with this.

Kathy Sipple:

I can't wait either. I hope really, I mean, the reason I want to learn it is my passion is the environment. And one of my other I always have like a collection of jobs at any given time. One of my other jobs is a resiliency coordinator for Earth charter, Indiana, because I live in Valparaiso, Indiana, about an hour outside of Chicago. And it's funny because I had to lead this team of volunteers on zoom. all summer, we were really dealing with this complex goal. And people did not know how we were going to get there. We didn't have any governance, if you will, because we were just this ragtag collection of volunteers. And I was trying to apply sociocracy principles, even though I was the only one in our circle, that knew the word or what I was doing. I kind of sneaked it in there. And it still worked. And we had incredible results. We You know, that's I actually, that's what I wrote about in, in our book together is that project and how transformative it was, I didn't get to go very deep into sociocracy. Because we only have so much room. But it was about how people were so empowered, and they felt listened to and we came to solutions better. And I kept trying to tell them, you guys, it's not just me, it's the sociocracy they just thought it was magic. You know, they didn't really care that it was called sociocracy. They just were so thrilled to be a part of, you know, such a dynamic group. Right?

Unknown:

It's very, very cool.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

I love it very much. Um, one of the things I forgot to tell you before we started is that the only way I know how to end this is to end the call. So the first time I'm like, I just hung up on somebody because

Kathy Sipple:

I tell people that was my podcast, too. I'm like, it's very unceremonious. It's just click. Yeah. I totally get a thank you again for having me was so enjoyed it, it was great.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

Oh, I'm so happy that you were here we Okay, so my curiosity is gonna kill me, you have to tell me just at least what is a time bank? Can I go get some withdraw some time out of the bank?

Kathy Sipple:

When Haven't you ever been situationally time rich, you know, like if you're unemployed, or you know, you're on disability, or maybe you're retired and you're like, man, maybe I shouldn't have retired or you're a young person you haven't yet found you know, a job. Or you know, your teacher and you have the summer off or something like that. You're like, gosh, I wish I could bank this time. Well, guess what you can. So I have been a time bank coordinator. I was the founder and coordinator of my local time bank here in Valparaiso, Indiana, called co thrivetime. Bank. And when I started on the journey, I just kind of googled and found you know, some leaders and there's there's basically two main places where you can learn about this time banks, USA which.org. I believe type, they might just be time banks.org. They are also coincidentally based out of DC. I keep thinking they got together, you'd be so awesome. It'd be so cool. To be continued on that. But and then the other one is called our world with an H h o u r world.org. And they are out of Portland, Maine. And they're both like beautiful, beautiful people that have software that helps like from technical aspect. And then they also have different systems of support to help people get some training and understand this, but basically to answer your question, it's where people exchange services with other members and no money is paid. So sometimes people say well, isn't that just bartering but with bartering, you have to find the person who wants what you have. With time banking, it's it's a lot more similar to the have just spent me. Because if I paint your bathroom and it takes me six hours, I don't really need to shop around and figure out well, Lauren, what are you going to do for me for six hours? Or what are you going to do? For me? That's equivalent, I just simply bank the six hours. And then I can spend those six hours with any other member that may not be you at all. I could get a massage, I could get two one hour massages, if it wasn't COVID time. Maybe right? Well, maybe right now I could get help with a website instead. Or, you know, I've had people do grocery runs for me. I mean, it hasn't really grown in our time bank people helped me when I was converting my front yard from Lawn to native plants and raised bed gardens for food. I was trying to get creative, I had about 200 hours stored up so I was like, I need to spend this down.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

I had no glad I asked I love

Kathy Sipple:

my making I love timing, it's just to me, it's right up there with like permaculture and sociocracy is like I'm not gonna rust until I can get those those things kind of introduced in the mainstream and have have these be a thing actually bought only recently called currency fluid. You know, because it's like there's cryptocurrency and learned about that now there's time banking, there's like social capital, you know, there's, there's all these different things besides money, like money is important. But if you're fluent with all these other currencies, it can just enrich your life and, you know, bring value when you're you could be kind of down, you could be low on one of your accounts. But by understanding how to be fluent in these other aspects, you can really, you know, get yourself right side up in a much easier way.

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

That's awesome. Awesome, amazing interview. Kathy, thank you so much. I think about

Unknown:

it again.

Kathy Sipple:

I feel like celebrating. So that's a good you have a hole in your schedule. I would love to come back and talk about time banking, or you know, whatever else you want to talk about. I just I love talking to fellow sister should say thought leaders. And I think our group of authors is just so fun and amazing. It really is. Yeah,

Lauren Gabrielle Foster:

we will definitely do it again. All right, I'm going to be back and I'll be emailing you you see you just a standby. I actually do not know who my guest is next week, but it will be amazing as it always is. So be sure to join me right back here next week at 1130. Eastern Time on Thursday for the How to Choose happiness and freedom tip show. In the meantime, remember that happiness is a choice. You can always choose to be happy first, a theme next week. Thanks Kathy.